adoption certificate????

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adoption certificate????

Postby lookingforelizabeth » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:37 pm

hi

this is my first post on this site and i am very green in these matters.

we have recently found out that we have an adopted half sister who was born in 1954, three years before i was born.
my mother had this child when she was quite young and i presume this was not as socially acceptable as it seems to be these days.

we know `elizabeths` date of birth, where she was born, her fathers name (not on the original birth cert), obviously my mothers name and the childs full name.

i believe that she was adopted at a very young age and that the original birth cert would have been superceeded by an adoption certificate with her new name and details on it.
i may be wrong but from what i have read on the net, only the person who was adopted can gain access to a copy of the adoption cert, yes or no????
if this is correct, it seems to me that there can be no way that we could ever trace our half sister, am i right in my beliefs or are there ways round this problem.

any advice would be appreciated.

pc
xx
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby skyebluepink » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:04 pm

I don't know if I can help you much, because I don't know the answer to your question. I do know that when I applied for my adoption certificate I had to provide the names of my adoptive parents, and obviously you would not know these. Have you added yourself on the national contact register - if she is registered on there too, they will put you in touch. Also NORCAP has a similar register, and I found my birth mother through a website called UK birth adoption register. It's worth a try looking in these places first. I have a feeling that the law changed a few years ago so that birth families could trace adopted people, but I'm not too sure about whether I'm correct- maybe somebody else might know?

Good luck with your search! x
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby AfterAdoption » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:01 pm

Hi PC

Prior to 2005 a birth relative like yourself could not trace an adopted person (unless you knew their adopted name) but as of 2005 there was a change in the law.....

As you do not know the adopted name of Elizabeth, you will not be able to obtain a copy of the adoption certificate.

You have three ways forward.

1 - Contact your local social services adoption team and ask if they provide an intermediary service. The issue here is when the law changed, the government did not set aside any funding, so some local authorities are not in a position to provide a servie!!

2- The adoption agency which placed Elizabeth for adoption. This can be difficult to trace, but a good starting point would be to contact the local authority's adoption team where your mother lived at the time of birth......and ask that local authority if they hold the records, and if they do, then ask them if they can provide an intermediary service. If you manage to locate the agency / local authority which hold Elizabeths records, you could ask if she has ever accessed them as this would indicate she knows that she is adopted, and secondly, it shows at some point the past Elizabeth was interested in her adoption/past.

3- Seek out the services of an Adption Support Agency, our organisation provides services for adopted adults and birth relatives contact the Actionline 08000 568 578 if you require further information. Maybe take a look at http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk, as it has some good links and tips.

As skyebluepink also suggested, place your details on the GRO adoption contact register, and the NORCAP register, because if ELizabeth has placed her details on either one of them, she will then get your details, and will then be able to contact you.

Good luck in your search
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby ladyarcher » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:38 pm

I was able to find the area to which my full sister had been adopted from her birth certificate.............. I knew her birth name, but not of course, her adopted name. If you apply for a copy of your sister's birth cert. now, in her birth name, when it is sent to you it will have the word 'adopted' written on it, and a note of the signature of the Registrar who registered the adoption.........this name will be the registrar for the area that the adoptive parents live in........you can then go through the County, and Country records to find which area that is, it could take a while..........in my case, the registrar for the births of me and my sister was the same one, we had both been born in the same hospital fourteen months apart..........then the registrar who signed to register our adoptions was different, but the same one for us both, and as I knew where I had gone, I knew she had gone close by........in fact we were ten miles apart all of our childhood, and even went to the same riding stables........ The names of the County Registrars would appear to be something that we are entitled to know and are therefore on an open record......... I did check by phone.......

One of the things I did was to go on Friends Reunited and put posts on the sites for all the schools in the area where I knew she had been, in the hope that her a.parents had gone on living there throughout her school days...........it did not work, because she had actually gone to boarding school........but it might have done, so was worth the effort....I had put notices in the years she would have left if she had done o'levels and if she had stayed on and done a'levels, and a year each side of them, for luck......giving her birth name and date of birth, and asking also if anyone had a friend that they knew was adopted........

... another thing I did was to write/phone all the women still living in the County who had the same birth date as my sister.........a very marvellous lady who has sadly recently died, who was a great help to all adoptees and birth mothers, was able to give me the list I worked from......that did not work either, as my sister had moved around a lot as an adult, and also had lived abroad a lot......... but there again, it might have done.....I think the list was probably from the electoral roll..........

I wrote to all the adoption agencies that were around at the time of our adoptions.......1946.......so not a long way away from your sister's birth........many agencies had closed of course, over the years, but all have their records archived somewhere and they can be checked..........it may be that your mother knows the agency that was used, if one was, although there were still plenty of private adoptions arranged because someone, the Dr. or the Minister, or a Teacher, knew someone who wanted a baby, and these things could be arranged quietly that way often..........in that case there would only be a Court record, not an agency one..........

As advised by After Adoption, and Skyblue...you should put a notice on the Government Adoption Contact Register......... I put one on 17 years ago, soon after it started, two years ago my full sister, at the age of 63 decided to look for her roots.........she went via the County social services and of course as soon as they started looking, my notice flagged up...........so, very quick and easy for that local authority.......I had done all the work for them.........it had taken me forty years, I first found out I had a full sister when I was 25 and started looking for my b.mother .......

good luck
LA
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby Jonathan Austin » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:21 pm

looking for Elizabeth

Is Elizabeth's full name E.Elizabeth B. born 12 9 54? By any chance?
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby lookingforelizabeth » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:52 pm

hi johnathon

sorry but her birth name was elisabeth joan waller, and she was born in islington.

good luck in your search.

pc
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby lookingforelizabeth » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:57 pm

hi

i have been told by islington council that they have no record of my sisters birth, they have looked but cannot find the file which i presume should be in their possession.

what to do now?

does anyone know roughly what it would cost to get a agency to find my sister??

pc
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby athensrunner » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:08 pm

Hi

Sorry cannot give any advice on cost of agency, but if your sister was born in Islington, it might be worth checking the neighboring boroughs like Camden, Hackney or Tower Hamlets, as the boundaries around there is a bit odd...some people will claim they live in Islington but actually live in Hackney

Hope this helps
Birth mother in an international adoption

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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby ladyarcher » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:59 pm

AthensRunner is right in the boundary wanderings....... also there were a lot of boundary changes some years ago now........I think, for example, Sunbury on Thames stopped being in Middlesex.......I am not even sure there still is a Middlesex actually.............a more helpful suggestion I would make is if you are a member of Genes Reunited, would be to get someone on there to check the birth record for you, that would give you the exact place.......for example Surrey is a big county and has several different birth registration areas, such as Surrey North West, and others........so there may well be, or have been, differently named areas of Islington and around it..........it could well be that people employed in the registry office there now might even be too young to remember the old areas and their exact bounds........children have not been being taught the counties as we were........ my children, for example in their thirties have no idea where Rutland was, and are pretty hazy about other counties too.......

I would also add that it is a good idea not to take the first 'fob off' from a County Council......... things often do get miraculously 'found' if you are a bit more strenuously persistent, perhaps mentioning ombudsmen etc...........on the other hand Councils are quite capable of losing just about anything it would seem.......I gave Surrey full details of my birth, and my full sister's birth, and our birth parents and their names and addresses, and the names of my adoptive parents, and their address, and the information that my full sister must have been adopted close to Guildford where I was adopted to........and they still could not find any record of either of us....... happily the Soc.Wkr. that my sister was assigned when she did decide to look for her own records, actually checked the adoption contact register, where my message had been waiting for fifteen years...........so, don't trust them, they will deny anything and tell you anything, just to stop you bothering them..........
LA
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby jonhope » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:21 pm

Hello PC. I have only just joined the forum and am in exactly the same position. I have searched so many different sites for advice and info but am no closer to finding my half sister than when I started. She- Patricia May Slim was born in Birmingham in 1938. I have her BC but no adoptive name. Have you moved any closer? I have followed the advice of many people but that name is evading me. I have been pointed towards a local woman by several people but I do not have her maiden name and I am unwilling to approach her for fear of doing more harm than good. For me finding about her life is what matters....... Can you or anyone else advise me? Would be eternally grateful.....................jonhope
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Re: adoption certificate????

Postby ladyarcher » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:34 am

Hello Jonhope, and welcome......if you look at the date on the thread that you have posted on, you will see that it is over two years old, and I don't think that this poster has come back to us since the last post that was made in Jan. 2012.......it would be a good idea if you started your own thread on here so people would know where to find you and to hopefully come up with help that was particular to you. For example, it is no use you trying to use Norcap, as was one of the suggestions on this old thread....... because Norcap was unfortunately wound up some time last year.......there must be an archive for the people who were on their contact register...... I would very much hope that there is, but I have not checked .......

Your sister is nearly 80, if she is still alive ......so time is a bit of the essence where your search is concerned.....1938 is only very shortly after official legal adoption came in....I think it was 1935, or thereabouts.....your other problem is that at that time it was still relatively easy for a.parents not to have to tell their children they were adopted........the technical paper trail that everyone leaves these days was not there then.......a lot of people either genuinely did lose stuff in the war, or have since used it as a useful excuse for not having certain papers....so this too is a problem......if your sister has never been abroad, and therefore never needed a passport, then it is quite likely that the question of names, and therefore adoption, has never come up for her........

I will look out for you on a thread of your own, and meanwhile I will try to think of other things that could be helpful, it being a bit late now to defuzz my brain ........

LA
born 1944 - adopted 1946 - found b.mother 1972 - sadly missed b.father who died young, but who had told his subsequent children that they had two English sisters, so when I made contact with them in Canada they were not shocked........five years ago finally found full sister who had been adopted separately........I found out about her when I was 25, it took me forty years to find her......
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