advice on coping with ungrateful / unrespectful young child

Moderator: AfterAdoption

Postby skezz06 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:12 pm

And neither has marz.

Having re read my post I cannot find anywhere where I said I did have experience of the type you are talking about reject.

I'm sorry for you that this experience has left you so obviously bitter, and rightly so.

My response here is to those who are suggesting from their posts that all adoptive parents are bad. Not about been adopted or adoption that hasn't worked. Adoption today is very different from when you were adopted and people are vetted alot more than they were then so that the things that happened to you, don't happen now.

I know from your post reject that you are indeed an adoptee but I don't know if you are an adopter, therefore I will not pass judgement on your experience in that area.
Start every day with a smile and get it over with
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Postby marzxxx » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:14 pm

Hmm seems someone's cage has been rattled :P

My case rests with those who have been used and abused by the system, and I fully support adoptees feelings whether adopters or social services and their ilk like it or not. I don't need first hand experience to empathise with Sparkie or Reject, but I can say, I'm so glad not to be walking in their shoes.
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Postby Sparkie » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:17 pm

Skezz

Im afraid I find it diificult to believe that much has changes in adoption you may well be vetted more now but what is you are vetted for a criminal record big deal this does qualify you as a good adopter how people who actually make the decision to place a child have and actual expirience of being adopted or what the system involves lets not forget once the adoption as been finalised social services wash there hands and the child is no longer there rewsponsibility.
You only have to look at this thread to no that the system still has its floors with adopters believing the child should be grateful for what they give them. As an adopter your an adult and you choose to do this nobody forces you and if you cant hack then my advice would be dont bother you will cause more damage to the child, as a child being adopted they have no choice often they are to young to have a say and have to live with strangers making decisions about there lives. Maybe it is just my opinion but having lived through I no what I feel and maybe you are a fabulous adopter I just get sick of hearing about how hard it is for the adopters think about the child for once and as I say if you cant hack it dont do it.

Reject - I no exactly how you feel I have wished for years that my mother has just abhorted me and saved me from all this pain.

Sparkie
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Postby westy » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:19 pm

In reply to all the last 30 posts.......

Sparkie.... i think you made a very good point about how the child involved does not think they are fortunate to be adopted..... as i do believe that no matter how abusive and disfunctional my dd birth family were to her she still loved them... and i empathise with her, and continue to facilitate their indirect contact in a positive manner, as i do not feel threatened by her love for her birth mother.

In addition i do believe SOME children are removed by social services that shouldnt be with catastropic effects on their lives for ever, and like SHEZZ said earlier good adopters have an often difficult job picking up those pieces and are more than entitled to get frustrated at times- this does not make us bad adopters JUST HUMAN.....

Can i make an important point, that we all can possibly forget at times, whilst these forums are here to 'give voice' and be 'heard', ( which we are all entitled to)like all email and texts in particularly, are open to individual interpretation!!!!!! and how they are taken may not necessarily be how they are meant.... regardless of the language used....so should seek clarification instead of launching attack!

As i cannot speak for anyone else, and wouldnt., my posts on here on my thoughts, exactly MY THOUGHTS, which does not mean say i project these thoughts to my dd, as i am only too familar to how parental vicious comments can stay with you for ever.

westy
x
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Postby marzxxx » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:22 pm

All fair comments Westy. I appreciate your fairness, and I agree with you when you mentioned about things people post getting misinterprated.
I guess people may read what they want to read in a post or look to deep into what's being said. I think we may have all been guilty of that, and not just were this forum is concerned.
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Postby Josie » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:54 pm

I empathise with adoptees who are sick of being expected to be grateful.
I also think that adoption to-day is not so different to adoption in the past.
Adoptive parents are not the creme de la creme of the human race.
They are just people, with weaknesses and failings.
Sure, they probably don't have a criminal record, but they are just as likely to have their own emotional hangups, issues etc as the next person.
If they have arrived at adoption after years of trying to battle infertility, then you've probably got the least suitable candidate to adopt, from the adoptive child/baby's standpoint.
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Postby mark/tina grimshaw » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:10 pm

Well all this started about one word " ungrateful" .
We are adoptive parents of our 8yo son and guess what, we are so GRATEFUL that he is part of our family, we'd be lost without him.
As for being "the creme de la creme" we most certainly are not, but we do care enough to have learned how and why he ticks and how we can help him.
We arrived at adoption after infertility battles, are we unsuitable?
Well if providing a loving, nurturing environment for our child, without expecting anything back in return is unsuitable, then we're guilty as charged.
We don't take any of your comments, josie, personally. Throughout
the years, friends, teachers, professionals, all have questioned our parenting
skills. We owe it to our child to be knowledgeable so that we can give him the best chance in an unfair world.
We understand that he has a natural "pull" towards his birth parents and when he is ready we will gladly help him fill in the missing pieces in his life.
This is how we do it, we are so fortunate to have our son, adoptive parents do care deeply.

Mark and Tina.
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Postby Josie » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:52 am

Dear Mark and Tina,

The points I made about the issues that infertile couples have are fairly valid and understood in adoption. Some adoptive parents DO have issues.
Ask any post-adoption counsellor who helps adult adoptees that have deep issues related to their adoptive parents behaviour and expectations.
You obviously understand that your child is adopted and are not trying to pretend that he isn't. Not all adoptive parents are able to do this.

Glad you didn't take any of my comments personally,
Josie.
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Postby Reject » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:42 am

Hi Josie,

You are so correct in what you write about adoptive parents. I am an adoptee who has suffered immeasurably at the hands of an adoptive so-called mother who had so many hang-ups that she was the most unsuitable candidate on the planet for adopting a child who had been rejected by thoroughly selfish sex-driven original parents. The result was that I never experienced the normal care of a mother. I do not know what a mother's love means. I was called a born slut every day, I had no underwear, my clothes were seldom washed, I never had a bath and my hair was permanently greasy, I was told that I was not a nice child and did not deserve the things other children had as normal. I hope this shows all those posters who think adoptees should be grateful realise the appalling damage that adoption does. Reunion is not possible as it is so unnatural a situation, the time cannot be recovered and the natural relationships that should have been cannot be formed. Children who are for dumping should be aborted - it's the duty of the original parents to sort out their mistakes and not leave the mess and the shame and the punishment for their innocent children to bear unaided.

Reject
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Postby marzxxx » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:52 pm

Reject, I'm so sorry for your experience. It is so worrying and upsetting when I read or hear that adoptees wish/or believe they should've been aborted. It rips me apart to think people feel that way about themselves. I just wish I could do something to help take all that pain away. I don't think anyone realises the potential affect adoption has, and I think it's about time those powers that be did something to stop it.
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Postby Reject » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:37 pm

Marzz,

Thank you so much for your compassion. Don't worry, no one can take the pain away but every effort to understand is most helpful and kind. I suppose it is rather unfortunate that I am of the opinion that abortion is the solution to unwanted babies but removing babies from their mothers is such an unnatural thing to do, the babies would certainly be better off dead. After all a cursory observation of baby animals separated from their mothers, for whatever reason, results in a poor start in life - how much more is this not the case for humans? I might take a different view had I had an adoption where I was wanted and regarded as a fully fledged member of the human race or if my original parents had regretted their actions, but neither is the situation and therefore I firmly believe that all babies who are going to be adopted should be aborted before the situation ever gets that far. At least the parent is tidying up after their own mess and the child never has to suffer the punishment for their parents' sins.

Reject
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Postby Sparkie » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:33 am

Hi Reject

I was adopted also and have spent many years wishing my mother had abhorted me. I totally agree with you when you say birth parents should sort thier own mistakes.
I will never understand how people can find it acceptable to just place a child with another family and walk away we may aswell be sold in a shop.
Even now this is still seen as acceptable can't they see the damage it does or maybe its just they don't care.

Sparkie
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Postby wakey wakey » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:43 am

Hi Sparkie and Reject,
It is so sad to hear that you wish you had been aborted, though I can understand why some adoptees feel like that-there are probably far more that feel as you do than I would like to believe.
When I first met my omum my first words were to her that I was grateful I hadn't been aborted.At that point in time I was near the beginning of the journey of discovering all my losses and grief over my adoption. Fortunately I have never got to the place of feeling it would have been better to be aborted-there have been enough other good things in my life-but they are despite adoption not because of it.
While I am grateful I wasn't aborted I also think that at the point in time when I said that to my mum I had such a low sense of worth that I almost needed her approval to exist. If she had said I shouldn't have been born I probably would have agreed with her!
But now I feel much more able to accept myself. Though I wasn't rejected by her at birth I have felt rejected by her since. My adoptive parents would have done better to have got a dog that they could put down rather than bring me up in such a disinterested way. BUT I am a worthwhile person, I have a lot to give and a lot that is special and lovable about me and I think that is true of most people. The choices(or lack of choices) the mistakes and the wrongs of our parents don't make us of lesser value and I just hate to hear you both feeling that you wish you weren't here.
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Postby Josie » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:20 pm

It's heartwrenching to hear adoptees wish they had been aborted, rather than adopted.
Reject and Sparkie, I'm so sorry that you have such painful feelings to struggle with.
The fact that you do struggle with these feelings and are here to tell the story is a testament to your strength and spirit.
Josie.
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Postby Josie » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:33 pm

I will never understand how people can find it acceptable to just place a child with another family and walk away we may aswell be sold in a shop.
Even now this is still seen as acceptable can't they see the damage it does or maybe its just they don't care.


Sparkie, the problem is that adoption is seen and understood as being VERY acceptable.
In the era that my son was adopted, it was not just acceptable, it was expected of me.

A friend of mine is a single Mother to three children, all were raised by her to be successful and well adjusted adults.
However, her firstborn came along when she was just 19 years old, at a time when single parenthood was seen as a shameful thing.

She planned on adopting out her baby. On the day when she was due to leave hospital, she realised that she just could not do it.
The adopters were waiting in a side room, complete with house, car and desire for a baby. She had nothing, just a bedsit.
She walked out with that baby with the staffnurse and matron screaming after her that she was a selfish b*@ch who was ruining her baby's life and denying the child the best opportunity in life.

She said her legs were like jelly and she was full of fear and uncertainty.
When she got home to her bedsit, she had no money, no baby clothes, NOTHING - she was scared stiff and she felt alone and isolated.
But, she kept her baby despite the hard and relentless pressure of society to let her baby have a "better life".

Can you see how an unsupported young mother might feel confused about her desire to keep and love her baby, versus the compelling and sometimes overwhelming pressure to believe that adoptive parents are somehow special and more likely to give a child a better chance in life?
No doubt it is very hard for you to understand, but just trying to give you a picture of how it can happen,

Hugs
Josie
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