advice on coping with ungrateful / unrespectful young child

Moderator: AfterAdoption

Postby mark/tina grimshaw » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:10 pm

hello westy,
we've been following this subject with some interest, as we are adoptive parents of an 8 year old boy and are familiar with this behaviour.
It seems like you're getting lots of empathy, support and understanding which is great, but what we guess you really need is some practical advice on how to change this behaviour.
Well, for the last two months we have been using THERAPLAY with our son and the results have been extremely encouraging. We trained for this through "After Adoption Preston"and as you come from "lancs"area you would
be able to access their help. If you would like more info and contact details please let us know,
regards, Mark and Tina.
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Postby westy » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:15 pm

hi tina & Mark.


you hit the nail on the head whilst sympathy is great to let off steam i totally agree i need practical help to manange/resolve her behaviour. To be honest we have dozens of behaviour problems, and have only mentioned a few in my posts otherwise i would dominate the WHOLE website.....they maybe connected they may not??????

social services have offered no practical help all they say is it will take time.....
any practical help would be great, as we are adopters that want help! for the happiness of the whole family :lol:

please forward any details


thanks
westy
x
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Postby marzxxx » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:16 pm

westy wrote: we are adopters that want help


Good :)
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Postby wakey wakey » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:16 pm

Hi westy,
It can be a minefield trying to get help, can't it?
Sometimes all you get is a pat on the back and "you're doing really well" or sometimes you get offered the cheapest therapy SWs can find and end up wondering if it will do more harm than good.
SS do have obligations to support you but you may have to pester them like mad to get support.
You could try reading some of the books around on parenting adopted children if you haven't done so already.
Best wishes,
wakey wakey
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Postby Sparkie » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:15 am

Hi Westy

we did think alot about adopting, as we had no biological need to, but wanted to adopted to give a child a chance....like many others


Having been adopted and repeatedly told how lucky I was to be adopted I was sick of hearing it by the time I was old enough to understand what it meant, I felt angry that nobody had asked weather I had wanted to be adopted and it was just assumed that this was the best thing for me. I also felt that again I had been dumped I desperatly wanted to be able to go home to my birth parents but having been adopted there was no involvement of social services so I had nobody to discuss this with. I was a complete nightmare of a child always hoping if I behaved badly enough one day I would be able to go back to where I came from.
I don't think you can expect a child to be grateful for something that they maybe don't even want. I don't believe a child should be grateful that they were adopted only unfortunate in that they were unable to remain within there birth family simply taking a child and putting them in a family that social services believe is better and then preching that by saying they should be grateful how do you expect the child to feel. I don't mean to sound harsh but you have to realise that you may think you have done a wonderful thing but moving a child into another family with no support often for the child as they get older is not nessesarily going to been seen as this great thing to the child involved.

Sparkie
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Postby marzxxx » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:19 pm

Hi Sparkie :) I think your imput has been very valuble in this thread. I guess you have said what I thought, I just had difficulty putting it into words. I've never been adopted and have never adopted, but I can totally empathise with adopted people.

It's totally out of order to expect a child to be grateful, infact it's absurd. I reckon many adopted children wish to be back with their natural families, and in many cases that would be a possibility, but as you rightly said, social services deem another family better able than the natural family without asking the child at all ever. It's really scary and inhuman almost.
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Postby Sparkie » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:22 pm

Hi Marz

Its nice to know that others agree that adoption is inhumane I don't believe in closed adoptions at all and think it is merly the easiest option for social services as it means once they have placed the child they no longer have any respsonibilty for the child. If we must have adoption it should at least be open if this is not what the birth parents want then they have a choice to terminate at the point of pregnancy. The option should always be there for the child to make the choice about contact it is the child who is the victim in this they did not choose to be concieved or given away.
Often the child is placed in a family that expects them to be like them and this can cause the child to feel even more out of place for example I was placed in a very academic family who also had there own child 6 years older than me although I was good at sport they felt this was a wste of time and was veiwed merly as a hobby and when I struggled with acedemic work I was made to feel like a failure at school teachers would often say I wasn't making an effort because my sister had done so well by the time I was old enough all I cared about was getting away and finding my real family who at the time i believed would except me for me.
I have never been grateful for being adopted and always felt out place not good enough for them and was not allowed to just be me this is what adoption forces.

Sparkie
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Postby marzxxx » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:29 pm

I think it's also adopters who don't advocate "open" adoptions. As you have rightly said, the child gets no say in the matter, not even when they are old enough to make their own minds up. Their wants get pushed aside, and the child then fears retribution if the subject rears it's head again. It must be horrible for adoptees to feel the way you have described. How frustrating it must be that you haven't got a voice, and that everyone else has deceided your fate and future for you.

What people fail to realize is that not all adoptees come from bad/poor natural families, some adoption have verged on the illegal and some have been simply circumstantial, where no other option has been available.

This whole subject is very distressing.
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Postby Sparkie » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:46 pm

Hi Marz

I think you is right people who adopt appear to then feel they own the child and have done this wonderful thing and as stated in this thread believe the child to be ungrateful when they don't fit in. I have been told that for some reason I did not attach to my new family and that was probably the cause of the problems I have now well all I can say is telling me that 21 years on was to little to late I first started talking to social services and and the post adoption centre when I was 14 and none of them did anything except to fob me off for years I still have great anger to them for not offering any support at that time. As it turns out my birth mother is not the mother i would wish on anyone and she has terminated all contact however had they dealt with this when I was 14 instead of 28 I might well have moved on from it by now. I still have huge attachment issues and having eventually found my dad who is the complete opposite of my mum I still struggle to maintain that relationship lucky for me he is very patient with me.
It does not appear that much has changed over the years and the same mistakes are still being repeated by both social services and adopters.

Sparkie
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Postby skezz06 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:32 pm

:o
Sparkie and Marz,

Having only found this forum recently and not viewed it very often I have only come to this thread today. I have read your posts with interest and feel I would like to comment on some of the things you have said. I do need to think about how I am going to phrase what I have to say as some of your points are based on your own experiences, (well yours anyway sparkie, I fail to see what experience you have Marz but we'll leave that for another time). Whilst some of the things you say may well be true I, as an adopter feel you are putting all adopters in the same box and streotyping us as all the same. We do not enter into adoption lightly and are faced with many harrowing times with our children who are in need of lots of love, help and care, not necessarily in that order. I don't want to offend anyone here, as I'm sorry to say I feel you have with some of your comments, so I will go away for now and think about my reply.

In the meantime I would ask that you think before you post so as not to offend anymore adopters who may come to read this.

Take care
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Postby marzxxx » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:16 pm

Firstly, I am not going into my experiences again on this forum. I'm sure I've posted my connections in this thread, but that's by the by. I kinda make my mind up from what I've read on this forum and what I've listened to from those in the know.

As for stereotyping, you are being hypercritical. Natural mums/families face far more stereotyping than you could ever imagine.

I am certainly not stereotyping ( especially, since as you say, you don't see what experience I have), how could I possibly stereotype anyone??

Please get down off your pedestal and join the real world. If my post offends, it must be touching a raw nerve.

I never apologise for causing offense, simply because what I say is simply my opinion, which I have a right to express.
Last edited by marzxxx on Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby marzxxx » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:17 pm

Oops, forgot to mention, I do think before I post.
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Postby marzxxx » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:19 pm

Ah then again, I forgot to post this: I do think Sparkie is in a position to comment as she has lived with adoption all her life.
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Postby skezz06 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:05 pm

I am currently climbing down off my pedestal, why don't you join me marz when you get down off that horse which is way to high for you.

Knowing people who have and are adopted gives you very little experience at all. You have no idea. On the other hand I am both a birth mum and an adoptive mum, so understand much more than you think, so please don't tell me what I can and can't imagine.

I never once in my post said that sparkie had no experience and would welcome a chat with her to compare experiences.

As you say in a previous post you are not and have not adopted, this forum is for those who have, to offer support and advice, based on our experiences. As you have very little experience, and that only being passive your replies have no standing here.

Get off your horse before it bucks.

Skezz
Start every day with a smile and get it over with
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Postby Reject » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:16 pm

Hi, Sparkie and all with the actual experience of adoption,

It is the most inhumane act ever conceived of. I identify with you completely. I was adopted into a family where I was expected to be grateful and still am. I spent my life being punished for the sins of my parents. I was called a born slut on a daily basis, told I was ugly, told I wasn't good enough etc. This still rings in my ears all day everyday 47 years on. There was no bonding as I was so different. My so called real parents are not what anyone woud wish and I too have mega attachment issues. I should have been aborted and I keep asking my father why he didn;t have sufficient courage and responsibility to ensure that I was. Skezz, you have absolutely no idea what it means to be in an adoption that has not worked. You may well be an adoptive mum; that does not qualify you in any way to understand what it means to be rejected several times over by evil birth parents at birth and at the opportunity for reunion and also by thoroughly obnoxious and selfish adoptive mothers. The feelings of despair and the complete inability to come to terms with why all other people are good enough to be accepted into their families and those of us who are rejected for adoption are never given a chance. When you know what it means to never experience the love of a mother, then possibly you could comment on the appalling affects of adoption. You haven't a clue.

Reject
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