Original birth certificate

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Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:42 pm

Had a random thought the other day.......

Who kept the original birth certificate?

There obviously was one, but what happened to it?

Did the b.mother keep it, after all, she had to sign it, so was she then given it?

Did the adoption agency take charge of it, along with the child? And if so, what did they then do with it, it wasn't in my adoption file. Did they have it made into the shortened version, to hand to the a.parents and the original was destroyed?

I am pretty sure the a.parents weren't given it, but then my a.mother denies all knowledge of anything, so they could have been given it.

I just wondered, what happened to the original. I feel like it was another thing that, as the a.child, I was denied and yet it was all about me! All other non-adopted children are given their birth certificates, no one would withhold them from them. We, adopted children, were just given one of those ones that looks as if it has come out of a Christmas cracker.

I thought the b.mother's on here might have some idea.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby cleo » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:12 pm

HI turtle,

I do not remember anything about my sons birth certificate to be honest, i know i had to register his name etc, but as for having a copy, i sadly do not have one, and do not know if the social workers had one. I do know though that my son said he has seen his orginal birth certificate because his A.parents showed him, and he told me that that is how he knew that one day if he wanted he could get in contact with me....

Now was that the original that i filled out at the office or a copy i cannot help you there, sorry, but at least i know my son knew about me all these years.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:18 pm

Thanks for replying Cleo.

That is interesting that your a.son was shown his b.certificate by his a.parents. That seems to suggest they had a copy, if not the original. I only knew my b.mother's name from the court order, that my a.parents had.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Donotunderstand » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:00 pm

When we applied for our daughters "new" birth certificate we were told to return the original, As we'd been given a couple of copies of the original I kept one back. I think birth mum may have kept one too as she was the one who passed them on to me via social services.
Aunt to a sibling group split up by Adoption and Residence Orders. Mum to birth children age 28 & 26, and adopted 14 year old (youngest of the sibling group)
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:03 pm

What was the "new" birth certificate, Donotunderstand? Did it contain different information from the original?
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Donotunderstand » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:35 am

The short version looks exactly the same as the original but with the new surname. I've never studied the long version before so although at first glance it seems similar it is actually an adoption certificate rather than a birth certificate. It is "Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the Adopted Children Register maintained at the General Register Office" . The original has name,address and occupation with headings for Father and Mother, These headings are missing from ours which just says name and address followed by our details (doesn't actually say who we are but you assume we are the parents) The original lists the hospital where our daughter was born but thats also missing from the new one. The new one has details of the Adoption order - date and court.
Aunt to a sibling group split up by Adoption and Residence Orders. Mum to birth children age 28 & 26, and adopted 14 year old (youngest of the sibling group)
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:46 am

Thanks for your reply Donotunderstand. I had no idea of the changes that are made these days. That is quite a difference, especially as it includes the adoption order details.

I have to be honest and say that I am not sure that I like the idea. Birth certificates are so personal and yet you end up having to show them to all sorts of people to prove who you are these days. Does your solicitor selling your house, really need to know that you are adopted? Such a personal piece of information. I wonder what other adoptees think of this new version?

Very interesting!
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby ann65 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:27 pm

Hi Turtle

I have always had two certificates both dated 19th April 1966 , one is birth certificate (short version) that I was told by my adopted parents I should use if I was required to provide a birth certificate as it did not show that I was adopted .
The other looks like a long version of a birth certificate but is a certified copy of an entry in the Adopted Children Register maintained at the General Register Office , giving my date of birth (Nov 1965) and place of birth , my adopted name and the names of my adopted parents and the date of the adoption order (4 April 1966 ) .

I have no idea where my original birth certificate went as I my birth mum says she does not have it and neither did my adopted parents.

I obtained a copy of my original birth certificate in 2007


Ann
Last edited by ann65 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Adopted 1965 , finally got the courage to make contact Jan 2011 after having my file for four years .I am still in regular contact with both my b.mum and half sister.I couldn't have wished for a better outcome .
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby sylvie » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:29 pm

Turtle, I was only given the short certificate (the one with me ommitted off it).

I have since applied for the longer, original one, and got copies of this for myself and my son. On this one, my name is under the section 'Mother'.

I will try and find the link for you. It was in one of Josie's previous posts. I didn't know I could get a copy of it until she told me.
I'll be back in a bit.
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby sylvie » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:36 pm

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

from Josie's post on 26/10/12.

Here's the fuller conversation: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2482&p=23680#p23680
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:07 am

Thanks for your replies Ann and Sylvie.

I have ordered a copy of my original birth certificate. I must say it made me feel like a second class citizen as it mainly has lines through it, because my father and his occupation are not listed. Also I wasn't named and it has ADOPTED scrawled over the far end.

Interesting Ann, that you have one that states your adopted parent's names and the date of the adoption order. I was adopted a year after you and I don't have one of those. I only ever had the short one, until I ordered a copy of the original a year ago.

Also, interesting that you were also given a short one Sylvie. I wonder why that was. Why weren't you given the original with your name on? Sounds like someone playing god.

What I am really interested in here though, is the original. I think because I am doing my family trees and my a.father's sister, had kept all the original certificates for her parents and their siblings. The originals are beautiful, handwritten and some had a postage stamp, which I need to look into as it was obviously used at a certain time, but I don't know why.

I am just really curious. Obviously all adoptees had an original, and there may even be a few of these, all handwritten, in those days before photocopiers. So what happened to them? In my mind, they should have been left with the b.mother or put in the files to be handed to the child later, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Were they given to a.parent's who may have wished to destroy them to hide the fact that the child was adopted, which was so easy to do back then? Did the local authority keep them, and if they did, what right have they got to have them?

As I say, I am just curious. I guess because, to adoptees, who have so little, these things are so important.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby julie2009 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:31 pm

Hi Turtle

Sorry I haven't been in touch lately. All the stuff regarding my file became too much for me so I decided to leave things for a while.

Regarding your query about birth certificates. I have both my birth one and adopted one but these are copies nonetheless.

I remember applying for my BC for a passport years ago but forget to include I was adopted when completing the form. When I called to collect it I was ushered into a back room and the girl said to me you do realise that you are adopted. I said yes I knew all along. She said she was a bit reluctant about telling me encase I didn't know. I had to laugh to myself after this but the look on that poor girl's face said it all.

Hope you are keeping well

Julie xx
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby Turtle » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:55 pm

That's nearly how I found out Julie. I was applying for my passport and quite by chance a friend, whose son was applying around the same time, mentioned that they insisted on a full birth certificate. That was when I at last had an opportunity to push my parents into admitting I was adopted, something that I had long believed but never been able to prove. I can't imagine what I would have done, if I hadn't heard about this full birth certificate requirement and found myself being told by a stranger that I had been adopted.

Sorry to hear you felt overwhelmed by your files. We all need space to process information like this, I fully understand that. Even small bits of information can rattle you and make you feel sick to your stomach. So don't worry about needing a bit of space. Most adoptees don't like putting themselves first, as we are people pleasers, but that is exactly what you need to do. Look after yourself first for a change, there is no shame in that.
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby ladyarcher70 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:58 pm

Only just got back on here again as had some computer probs. and had to get new passwords for lots of things.........so now doing a lot of catch-ups ....

...........with ref. to birth certs......I too only had a short form, however because I knew my birth name I went to Somerset House - as it was then - in 1966 and got a copy of my original birth cert........this gave me my birth mother's name and address at the time of my birth, 1944 ........and my birth father's name, rank, Canadian Army Number, and the address of the barracks he was stationed in at the time.....Inkerman, Bisley........ the certificate had 'adopted' written on the right hand side, and the name of the registrar attesting to the adoption....so two Registrars, the one for my original birth in Woking, and the second one for the adoption....I was born in Surrey, my b.mother lived in Surrey, and then I was adopted through Surrey County Court......and my a.parents lived in Guildford.....the County Town of Surrey........so I was about as 'Surrey' as you can get.....

I found my b.mother in the early 1970s, without very much trouble, it was just a case of following the clues, and checking registers.....

....interestingly, in 1968, after I found out about having a full sister........, on sending for a copy of her birth cert. the two Registrars were the same as mine......she is only 16 months younger than I .......so by these two registrars names I knew that she had been born in the same hospital as myself, and then adopted to a family who lived fairly close to my a.family at the time of our adoptions..........I later found out that she had been brought up in a little village a few miles out of Guildford, and we had in fact both gone to the same riding stables ........neither of us knowing at the time, that we had a sister........it is doubtful that our paths crossed much there, because she had her own pony which was stabled there.........whereas I went for lessons and rides out........people who had their own horses did not have to 'clock' in and out and make appointments to ride......and they rather pitied those of us who could only hire a horse, and did not own one.....hmm.......

In the early 1990s when I was having another blitz on looking for my full sister, I contacted Surrey and they denied all knowledge of either of us, despite me giving them our birth names, our dates of birth, our birth parents' names, addresses, and the hospital we were born in ......and also my a.parents names, address, and the date and Court of my adoption........nothing......interesting considering that in1989 I had registered on the Contact Register........I contacted Surrey again in the late 1990s with the same result.......however in 2009 when my full sister finally decided to do a bit of searching herself.......her Surrey Soc.Worker checked the Adoption Contact Register and was immediately told that I had left a message on there 15 years earlier.......all very mysterious.....the way these things work, or don't work, depending on one's viewpoint.....

LA70
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Re: Original birth certificate

Postby ladyarcher70 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Whoops......pressed 'send' before I had finished.........just was going to add that perhaps I will get around to having another 'poke' at Surrey's Records, to see if they acknowledge me now......lol......seriously though, it would be interesting to see a 'file'......but I expect they lost it in the war.......or in local 'govt. reorganisation,......... or in one of those mysterious fires that so many adoptees discover have only destroyed that particular filing cabinet in that particular office........sorry for the sarcasm, but it is what a lot of people used to be told........

LA70
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