Giving up my baby

Moderator: AfterAdoption

Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:13 am

Did anyone see the documentary last night (Thursday 3rd July) on BBC3 called Giving up my baby? It was part of the Stacey Dooley in the USA series.

(If not it is available on iplayer for the next 7 days)

It showed the process of open adoption in America and was a fascinating programme to watch.

It dealt with very young couples, at the beginning of their relationships and their lives, deciding that they wanted to have their baby adopted. The open process in America allows these b.parents to actually select the a.parents from a list provided by the adoption agencies. They would then meet these potential parents and decide whether they felt they would be right for their baby. (Expenses were paid). If they decided to go ahead, 72 hours after the birth, the parents would sign over the child and at that point there was no turning back unless they could prove they were forced or conned into doing so. They then had some access rights. They could keep in contact by the internet and were allowed occasional visits.

The program followed two sets of b.parents and also talked to the a.mother and b.mother who went through the process 16 years ago. There were also grandparent's opinions.

It was incredibly interesting. Of course, as a tv programme, it all went to plan and everyone was very positive about the situation, so probably didn't reflect the total reality of the situation.

A few things stood out to me. One was the parents talking about the child "belonging to two sets of parents" and thinking that was a positive thing. The adoption agency lady corrected him and said that actually it was the other way around and that the parent's belonged to the child. I thought that was nice. It makes me sad when children are seen as possessions.

The relationship with the a.parents was interesting. The b.mother who looked back, having had her son adopted years ago, said that before the birth the a.parents phoned her everyday, but as soon as he was born and handed over, that all stopped. It was a sad reflection of human nature.

I felt incredibly sad for the young babies whose lives were being drastically changed by the people around them and had no voice in the way their lives were about to change.

Definitely a programme worth seeing, although brace yourself for it, it wasn't easy viewing!

I wondered what the b.mother's on here would make of that type of open adoption and whether, if they had been able to make that sort of choice years ago, they would have considered that a better option?
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby athensrunner » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:31 pm

Hi Turtle

Open adoption as shown in the program is a very American thing. I for one is against the American model of open adoption, if the agreements is set out the same way as within a divorce and custody agreements, open adoption has the potential to work...however, IMHO I cannot see it working and is harmful to all parties. You have to remember that the majority of these birth parents are teenagers and agencies...thus money is involved and the birth parents are not emotionally ready to understand the full implications of open adoption. The adoption worker in yesterday's program appears to have been the exception to the rule. The only way I see open adoption working, is where a child is removed by Social Services and is allowed contact with their biological family, supervised or unsupervised depending on the circumstances and allowed to form their own opinion about their birth parents.

There were similarities between my story and what was shown in the program, technically I chose my son's apaps and I was offered a chance to meet them, I rejected this as I was worried that if I didn't like the look of them I would not go through with the adoption, I was also discourage to meet them by the doctor who facilitated the adoption. I did however provide them with a laundry list of questions I wanted to know...including my biggy "Would they always tell him that he was adopted and would they assist him should he wish to find me when he was older"...of course I was told that they would. I'm guessing now, but I'm fairly certain that they would have been told a number of lies about me.

My son's apaps offered to set me up in a rented apartment during the pregnancy and bought me some maternity clothes. I rejected the apartment but took the clothing, again for all I know...they could have been told that I took the apartment and paid "rent" for it...you see, as soon as facilitators and/or money are involved in the adoption process, open adoption (the American style) becomes open to misuse.

The of course, you will have the promises....from what I can see from online blogs and forums, open adoption "works" for the first couple of years and then the apaps cuts contact.

So, if I had known then what I know now about open adoption...there is no way I would have gone down that route. Then again, that I just my opinion.
Birth mother in an international adoption

Feel free to read my ramblings as a birth mother
http://www.athensrunner.blogspot.com
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby sylvie » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:50 pm

Hi Turtle

I saw that programme advertised but I can't watch those programmes. Just too painful.

As someone who had a baby when I was very young, and basically lost him because of that, I am now a supporter of family preservation (obviously as long as there is no danger of harm to the child, which there was no question of in my case). I think that if young parents need help because of their youth, they should get it, in the same way that elderly people should, or pregnant women, or ill people, or any other vulnerable person in our society. We are often only vulnerable for a short time anyway - after that we can then help others. In an ideal world, we would all behave perfectly and get everything right at the right time, but we don't, we are human and fallible, and our babies shouldn't lose their mother and father, their extended family or their heritage because of that. Nor should the mother or father lose their child.

I thought for a while that open adoption would've been better for my son. It would've meant he could've had my love and support when he desperately needed it, instead of being intolerably, unbearably lonely in his young adolescence.

But what many of those programmes don't mention is that open adoptions are not legally enforceable, and many aparents close it down as soon as the adoption is finalised (I am absolutely certain my son's amum would have done that).
Or they close it down later, out of the blue, or for spurious reasons. Or the aparents move across to the other side of the country so that it is virtually impossible for the often-impoverished young first parents to maintain contact.

The other side of the coin is how it feels for the person who is adopted within an open adoption, and there are some blogs written by those with this experience.
A number of them say that it felt deeply painful to watch their original parents leave repeatedly, or to watch them bring up kept siblings, and that questions such as 'Why did you give me up' and other injuries to their self-esteem still occur, despite the openness.

There is an interesting discussion about open adoption going on here: http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2014/06/what-you-should-know-about-open-adoption.html

A few other things were questionable too:

Having expenses paid, like having the prospective adoptive parents in the delivery room, is a subtle and underhand way of making the expectant parents feel beholden, and makes it difficult for them to change their minds about having their baby adopted. Young people usually don't have the money to pay the expenses back, which is often demanded if they decide to keep their baby, nor do they have the confidence to voice what they really want, thereby overriding what the older, more worldly-wise, more powerful, very persuasive prospective aparents want (or the adoption agency which, in the US, is paid tens of thousands in 'expenses' for each adoption - it is a billion dollar industry there, and heavily marketed using sophisticated methods to persuade young women to relinquish their babies). By that time, they have already typically been told that the aparents are better than them anyway (more money, older, married, etc). It's all pressure.

The other thing is that, after giving birth, it takes time for a woman's hormones to return to normal. She shouldn't be signing anything, especially something so emotional and important and life-changing, whilst still affected by birth hormones and labour medication.

I agree with you about parents belonging to a child rather than the other way round.
No child is a possession.
I also agree that an adopted child has two sets of parents, and has a right to both, and that both sets should completely respect that.

And I agree with you about how sad it is that all these decisions were made about a baby, a little human being, a unique individual, without that little person having a say in it. That's why I think adult adopted people should have a right to have and acknowledge whatever family they want, and whatever information they want, as they didn't choose their situation.

My personal truth is, I am very against the adoption of newborn babies (except where danger is present, and even then I'm against the eradication and replacement of their history and heritage). There are many older children in foster care who would like a family life (not all though, and we should listen to them too) - I think these youngsters should be the priority, while help be given to young parents of newborns to preserve them as a family unit.
I also think that the desire to adopt a newborn baby possibly indicates a desire by the adoptive parents to imagine the child has been born to them and thus ignore the fact that the child has a different background and inherent influences, instead of accepting and loving those differences and that individual just as they are.

Just my two pennyworth!
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby ladyarcher70 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:18 pm

I can't help feeling that the time for adoption, as we know it, has passed now........it needs to be replaced by something that better reflects and serves modern needs........apart, as is always the case, from cases where a child or children are in danger from their parents........children should be in what one might describe as a legal long term foster situation............not a fostering in which they can be shifted around, because that obviously contributes to lack of confidence and a feeling of insecurity, perhaps more like a guardianship......

......with a long term foster/guardianship, the g.parent (guardian parent) would be responsible for the upbringing of the child, for its health and welfare in the normal day to day way.......however the g.parent would not take the place of the b.parent, in that the child should not have it's name changed, nor it's religion, the b.parent would always be Mum or Dad.......and would be included in such things as school reports, parents' evenings, special occasions, etc....the child would always know who was its parent and would always have links to its background.......the situation would, for the child, be very similar to a lot of its peers who were from divorced parents......the absent parent still in their lives and included ....a special advantage of this would be that the child did not lose all it's other 'real' relatives as Gr.parents and aunts/uncles and cousins, would still be included in the child's life................ after not very long, such situations would be commonplace, in the same way as separating parents are now commonplace.......every school class has children who see one or other of their parents at some set timetable, and eyebrows would soon cease being raised in the case of 'guarded' children too.....

With modern communications and media, secrets are out flanked very easily, and adoption is one of the things affected by this..........any bright ten year old can find it's birth parent on the internet given a few facts...........so keeping b.parents secret is ridiculous.........as Sylvie says, in a perfect world everyone would do things in the order that was correct in the past. but people don't..........and never have, or there would never have been a need for adoptions...........if a child is in guardianship there is never any deluding able to be done as the guardians in the beginning would know what their role was...........and the role would not attract people who wanted to 'pretend' to be parents.........

Just my rather random thoughts

LA70
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:17 am

athensrunner wrote:The only way I see open adoption working, is where a child is removed by Social Services and is allowed contact with their biological family, supervised or unsupervised depending on the circumstances and allowed to form their own opinion about their birth parents.


The problem is, that the a.parents will always influence things, whether they are present at meetings or not, so the chances of a young child forming their own opinion are slim. Plus, a.parents can voice an opinion even without saying anything, by changing their mood and attitude whenever the subject arises. The child can quickly pick up on the subject being a no go area, even if nothing is said directly. I have given up on talking to my a.mother about things as although she says she is open to discussing it, she will be in a bad mood with me for days later.

athensrunner wrote:There were similarities between my story and what was shown in the program, technically I chose my son's apaps and I was offered a chance to meet them, I rejected this as I was worried that if I didn't like the look of them I would not go through with the adoption, I was also discourage to meet them by the doctor who facilitated the adoption. I did however provide them with a laundry list of questions I wanted to know...including my biggy "Would they always tell him that he was adopted and would they assist him should he wish to find me when he was older"...of course I was told that they would. I'm guessing now, but I'm fairly certain that they would have been told a number of lies about me.


The problems is, even if you don't meet them, they can still answer your questions with what you want to hear. Maybe a face to face meeting might give you more of a gut feeling. I felt that with this program. That it was all very smiley and nice, but I bet as soon as the adoption was signed for, things would change. Basically, most a.parents want that child to be theirs and don't want other parents influencing things. In a lot of ways you can understand this, as that child has to fit in with that family.

athensrunner wrote:...you see, as soon as facilitators and/or money are involved in the adoption process, open adoption (the American style) becomes open to misuse.


Money always causes problems, as then things can be seen more in terms of a contract and people feel more obliged.

athensrunner wrote:So, if I had known then what I know now about open adoption...there is no way I would have gone down that route. Then again, that I just my opinion.


That is interesting. I wondered if some b.mothers would at least see it as a chance to keep in touch with the child, even if it didn't work out and perhaps see that as better than no contact at all, but perhaps that is too painful.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:33 am

sylvie wrote:As someone who had a baby when I was very young, and basically lost him because of that, I am now a supporter of family preservation (obviously as long as there is no danger of harm to the child, which there was no question of in my case). I think that if young parents need help because of their youth, they should get it, in the same way that elderly people should, or pregnant women, or ill people, or any other vulnerable person in our society. We are often only vulnerable for a short time anyway - after that we can then help others. In an ideal world, we would all behave perfectly and get everything right at the right time, but we don't, we are human and fallible, and our babies shouldn't lose their mother and father, their extended family or their heritage because of that. Nor should the mother or father lose their child.


If only we lived in an ideal world. My ideal would be that women didn't get pregnant in the first place until they were ready. The young couples in the programme were too near the beginning of their relationships to make that sort of commitment. Once pregnant, they are faced with giving the child up for adoption or abortion. Both of which psychologically damage the mothers and perhaps, some of the fathers.

sylvie wrote:But what many of those programmes don't mention is that open adoptions are not legally enforceable, and many aparents close it down as soon as the adoption is finalised (I am absolutely certain my son's amum would have done that).
Or they close it down later, out of the blue, or for spurious reasons. Or the aparents move across to the other side of the country so that it is virtually impossible for the often-impoverished young first parents to maintain contact.


I should think it being closed, years into the arrangement, would be even harder, as the child learns to communicate and react with the parent by then. I guess it is the same for divorced parents in some cases.

Thanks for the forum link. That was very interesting to hear the various sides of the story.

sylvie wrote:Having expenses paid, like having the prospective adoptive parents in the delivery room, is a subtle and underhand way of making the expectant parents feel beholden, and makes it difficult for them to change their minds about having their baby adopted.


I think age could play a role here too. Very young women may not feel that have a voice when surrounded by older adults voicing stronger opinions.

sylvie wrote:My personal truth is, I am very against the adoption of newborn babies (except where danger is present, and even then I'm against the eradication and replacement of their history and heritage). There are many older children in foster care who would like a family life (not all though, and we should listen to them too) - I think these youngsters should be the priority, while help be given to young parents of newborns to preserve them as a family unit.
I also think that the desire to adopt a newborn baby possibly indicates a desire by the adoptive parents to imagine the child has been born to them and thus ignore the fact that the child has a different background and inherent influences, instead of accepting and loving those differences and that individual just as they are.

Just my two pennyworth!


The problem is that a lot of a.parents want babies so that they can mould them into themselves. They want the child to show characteristics of their own family, so that they blend in, which is easier to do from a young age. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Children have to fit in to some extent, or they pay the price for it.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:44 am

ladyarcher70 wrote:I can't help feeling that the time for adoption, as we know it, has passed now........it needs to be replaced by something that better reflects and serves modern needs........


I can see where you are coming from, LA, but I am not sure that people would go for that as an idea. My own sister, who was unable to have children, looked into adoption, but didn't like the fact that the b.parents had contact. Because of that, she decided not to go ahead. She would have made a great parent, but she just didn't want the interference of SS or the b.parents. If you made it harder, by having some sort of long term fostering/guardianship, I think it would encourage less people to step in and help these children. Having extra people have a say, and bringing up the child "by committee" might make decisions impossible and may not help the child.

Of course, as a fellow adoptee, I know what you are trying to say here. Basically, children need all their parents. I just don't see it working as a solution and basically we both know, there is no solution, as the world isn't that ideal.

You also talked about contact with b.family members such as grandparents etc. I was shocked in the programme with how easily the b.grandparents were going along with the situation. Personally I would like to see more relatives stepping in and offering homes. That has to be the preferred to solution if conditions allowed it. Certainly it would at least give the child more of a connection to their genetics and a feeling of connection.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:48 am

Thanks for all your replies ladies. I answered them all separately as I wanted to quote a few things and I thought if I stung the answer together the computer might suddenly die on me and I would lose the lot!

Your opinions were very interesting, as always. I hadn't come across open adoption before so it was nice to hear a few views on it. I guess when it works, it is great, but when it doesn't it just becomes another disaster that messes with people's emotions. The problem is, in each case, you don't know if it works or not until years down the line, when the child is old enough to voice their thoughts on the whole processes.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby sylvie » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:04 pm

Turtle, I just want to respond to a few things in your post. First though, thanks again for asking such interesting questions.

My ideal would be that women didn't get pregnant in the first place until they were ready. The young couples in the programme were too near the beginning of their relationships to make that sort of commitment. Once pregnant, they are faced with giving the child up for adoption or abortion.


...or keeping the child, if they can get enough support for the few years they need to grow up a little and gain experience.

Yes, it would be ideal if pregnancies began when everything was in place. But the messiness of being human means that a huge number of pregnancies are unplanned and unprepared for (I read somewhere it was about 50% of all pregnancies).

Either way, the majority of these unplanned pregnancies don't end up with the child being adopted away from its family. Expectant parents and their extended families adapt, scrabble to help, juggle their lives and plans, and keep their child. The adoption of newborn infants was a symptom of the lack of support.


The problem is that a lot of a.parents want babies so that they can mould them into themselves. They want the child to show characteristics of their own family, so that they blend in, which is easier to do from a young age. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Children have to fit in to some extent, or they pay the price for it.


There is a lot of recognition now that babies aren't the blank slates that 'experts' pretended they were just a few decades ago.
That babies come into the world with all sorts of inherent qualities that need to be acknowledged and fully appreciated.
Really, that the child deserves to be loved for just who they are, not conditionally on how well they fit into their a-families.
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:03 am

I was really talking about mothers who had no intention, for whatever reason, of keeping the baby. If they had any inclination to do so, then they should be encouraged and supported to do so. We all know that babies should be with their mothers, if the child is safe. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

But what amazes me is the number of unplanned pregnancies each year. I have no idea what the abortion rate is, or the number of children adopted, but whatever it is, it is going to be too high in my opinion. I am shocked, in the times we live in, where there is long term contraception, that no longer needs to be remember to be taken daily, and emergency contraception, for those who get caught out, that so many pregnancies still occur. The knowledge that people have nowadays about sex, means that most teenagers should be well aware of where children come from.

I would love to see mentors go into schools and discuss with the girls the implications of getting pregnant. I think girls flippantly think that it can be sorted if it happens and have no idea of the psychological damage they could be doing to themselves, or their babies, when a truly unwanted pregnancy ends in abortion or adoption. Better to understand the consequences more fully and not get yourself in that situation in the first place. The mothers in the programme can across as sensible and intelligent women. One was training to be a vet, I think. They both seemed to come from decent families. I just feel that with better knowledge, people make better choices. After all, what are the chances of these two women not looking back and seeing this time as one of the most personally damaging times of their lives?

I too would love to see children appreciated as individuals. But even with families who have genetic children, a lot of parents want their children to fit in and be part of the family. People's individuality is not often celebrated in the way it should be. Unconditional love, in my opinion, is often very thin on the ground.

Just out of curiosity. If I could have waved a magic wand and assured all of you b.mothers that open adoption would have worked - that access would have been allowed, that the a.parents would have been welcoming and the child would not have been upset by the visits etc. - would you have done it? I just wondered, even if those things were in place, that seeing someone else bringing up your child, would still have been too painful? In other words, is no access sometimes better than some, for self preservation? I just think it would be hard to still have to watch from a distance and know that the a.parents still probably had the main influence in that child's life.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby sylvie » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:34 am

I don't know the answer to your question Turtle.

My feeling is that I would've liked to have been in my son's life so that he could see someone who accepted him just as he was. So that he could've had that in his world - a pair of eyes that smiled at his ways rather than pathologised them.

I don't know what the effect would have been on me. I think it would have been difficult to watch him growing up in an environment that had very different values to me - for example, I am not bigoted and really appreciate other people's differences but my son's afamily environment seems to be quite harshly judgemental of anyone who is different from them.

Having him disappear absolutely from my life, because of the closed adoptions of the day, was unbearable and I think damaged us both.
But open adoption seems to also damage.
That's why I really support attempts to provide the often temporary help that is needed to keep a family intact.


PS.

I recently came across a blog from a young woman whose baby son was adopted into an open or semi-open adoption in 2012. The woman writes very honestly about her painful feelings about this. http://everyoneactdead.wordpress.com/about/

Here is a blog written by a young woman who was adopted into, and lived the experience of growing up in, an open adoption and now writes about it. http://www.sisterwish.com/
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:57 am

Thank you for being so honest Sylvie.

To me it seems like a lose/lose situation. Having no contact must be hard, but equally I think being on the edge might be just as unbearable.

I think it would be hard for a b.mother to stand back and watch an a.mother influence a child with her style of upbringing. My a.mother definitely believed in giving a child "a good snack" (her words) if she felt they needed disciplining. It seems to be a way of dealing with a child during that period of time. Not that I received anything like a beating, but it certainly wasn't done out of love and altered the bond between us. I wonder what my b.mother would have made of that if she had seen it. Having no knowledge, may have been a better thing, as there would have been nothing she could do about it.

Someone else I know had an abusive upbringing. Really dreadful. Beyond most people's imagination. It makes me sick when I think about it. I don't think a b.mother could have dealt with that going on, although at the time, I think that society would have accepted that as a form of parenting. Thank goodness times have changed.

This is why it also makes me cross that children were placed in homes and no one followed it up. No social workers, doctors etc. This no doubt suited everyone at the time. Things have now changed and may, in fact, have gone the other way, who knows.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby cleo » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:01 pm

Hello Turtle and Sylvie,

I have'nt seen the programme because i don't get BBC3 where i live, so cannot comment on the rpogramme.

I have often wondered what i would do if i could go back and maybe choose a different option, but i know thats not possible, i never got the support from my parents, they never talk about how to "keep safe" so to speak.

Yes i would of loved to have seen my son growing up, but not in the way of an open adoption, as i am experiencing at the moment, i now know about my son but can have nothing to do with him, its like i am watching him and my grnadson from a key hole. Getting sneak glances, but not being part of his life...i guess that what open adoption must be like too.

I think in my case, i'm glad mine was a closed adoption, my sons a.parents were able to get on their new lives with my baby boy and yes, moulding him into their way of life....and the outcome for him is that he fits in very well, a different environment to me.

The only thing i regret is that he never knew if i loved him or thought about him all these years, which i did, and even though he is very close to his parents too it seem the thing that held him back all this time.

But know he doe's know that i have been waiting all these years, like you said sylvie, the damage was done on both sides and yes unbrearable...and to be honest i think open adoption may cause even more damage, because the child will be literally torn between his 2 parents.

It hard to say anyway because everyone reacts differently, as i am finding out, one word, or something did wrong maybe the be- all or end-all of a Relationship, yest another person may take it as a whim....

The sad thing about these programmes is that they show too much..."everything is hunkydory", but in alot of cases it is not and there is alot of hurt, damage and upset on all sides, hidden pain too.

I wish you did have a magic wand Turtle, i would certainly ask to help med whatever went wrong with my son.

Take care x
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby sylvie » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:37 pm

Please can I borrow that magic wand too? I would turn back time and tell myself 'You will be a great mother for him' and hug him close and ignore everyone.

Turtle, someone pointed me towards two research papers, in answer to my continuing mystification as to why I thought giving my son up was ever a good idea. Here are links to them - they might explain both why teenagers do reckless things, and why they are so persuadable.

http://tinyurl.com/mydtp8x

http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html
Reunited with my beloved son after decades of separation which began when I was a young teenager and he was newly born, and finally ended a few years ago when we met again as fully-grown adults.
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Re: Giving up my baby

Postby Turtle » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:48 pm

Ladies, if I really had a magic wand, be assured, I would let you use it.

Those blog links, Sylvie, were so interesting. I thought the b.mother writing her thoughts would be an amazing gift to her child in years to come. I hope she keeps writing, however hard it seems. The problem is, when would you want your child to view it? In the teenage years and early twenties, I am not sure a child would understand and be forgiving. I know as I reached my thirties and definitely by my forties, that my whole view of life changed and mellowed. I became far less critical and finger pointing. Age is a great way of focusing the mind on the things that really matter. It allows for greater forgiveness and understanding.

I also found the blog by the adoptee very interesting. She attributed quite a lot to the open adoption that she went through and yet I found her voice rang true in my own head. So maybe those feelings were more to do with adoption generally, who knows. Her feelings of not being able to connect and feeling vulnerable, as well as criticising herself, rang true for me too. A really interesting blog, that anyone wanting to see inside the mind of an adoptee, should read.

Cleo, these programmes always want to show that things are "hunkydory". There is another series of Long Lost Family about to air. Again we will witness the positive side of reunions, where everything goes to plan and falls into place. Negative outcomes, in these circumstances, makes bad tv. Everyone wants the fairy tail ending.

I can understand what you mean about watching your son through a keyhole, Cleo. Being able to watch what is going on, but unable to be part of it. So frustrating and sad for you. The problem is, your son has the key to the door and only he can open it now. Until then, you can only wait and hope. If only I did have that wand!!

I am very interested in how the brain works, Sylvie, and so have come across that information before, but thanks for the links. The brain has a lot to answer for. Quite often, through our lives, it works against us.
Turtle
 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:12 am

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