Is this what adoptive parents dread?

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Is this what adoptive parents dread?

Postby Allie » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:33 pm

Older friends of ours (late 60s) adopted unrelated boy and girl babies; both children were too young to have any memory of a life before adoption. They're in their 30s now. The girl is in a stable relationship and happy with life, but the boy has always been rebellious and a bit of a worry - never interested in career of any description and taking a series of dead-end jobs to keep himself in cigarettes and beer.

I'd be surprised if the son has turned out as he has because of anything his parents have done to him. Our friends are probably the sort of parents most people dream about - laid back, sociable and reasonably comfortable financially.

A few years back the son made contact with his b.mum, who had emigrated. She sent him a ticket so he could visit her. The visit was a success and was repeated the following year. Four months ago, the son announced he was emigrating (sponsored by his b.mum) and just went. :shock: He hasn't been in contact with his a.parents or sister since and they're devastated.

They're putting on a brave face, saying his happiness is what matters, but they must be so hurt.
"Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."
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Postby Janej » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:05 am

It sounds to me like the son needs to grow up a bit - maybe I am simplifying things but he sounds a very selfish person to not care how his a/parents and a/sister are feeling.
He may well find that there is a world of difference between the relationship he has with his b.mum on a relatively short visit and the reality of living close to her on a day to day basis and hopefully he will be back in touch with his a/parents.
His a/parents sound like a very caring couple and I have immense respect for anyone who adopts - my a/parents did a really good job bringing up both my a/brother (not related to me) and me and with the benefit of maturity I can see that neither of us were easy, especially as teenagers.
As with any parenting situation you have to let them make their own mistakes and make sure that they know you will be there for them if they need you.
I hope it works out for them and they can maintain a relationship with him.
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Postby mnenka » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:34 pm

From what you have posted, its probably nothing the adopters have done, but this young man needs to 'find himself'. I suspect when the honeymoon is over in the States he will remember his family here. By which time i hope it is not too late.
Born 1966, Found hours later. Adopted 1972. Placed veto 2005 (for no contact)
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Postby Incognito » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:23 pm

It was intresting to read this post...

"I'd be surprised if the son has turned out as he has because of anything his parents have done to him. Our friends are probably the sort of parents most people dream about - laid back, sociable and reasonably comfortable financially.

Firstly I find it quite surprising that its stated the young man who hasn't settled down into a conventional family life was not put down to upbringing by the aparents as quoted above. Does this also mean that the way in which the woman has settled down into what is considered a convential family life also has nothing to do with the aparents? Or will they take credit for that? I hope you see where I am coming from...

Secondly, people decide to live in another country all the time, are adopted people exptected to forsake this opportunity because of some type of gratitude owed to aparents? I find this very upsetting that you consider him selfish and inconsiderate. You have to remember that people cannot be controlled and I am sure if the afamily were as wonderful as you stated that in time he would naturally be included to get back in touch with them. Surely he has a right to try to start a new life for himself without feeling forever indebted ????

Anyway, that the feelings I got when I read this post.
Lessons from a wise king...

(1Kings 3:24-25)-(verse 26-verse 27)
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Postby ~Sooze~ » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:20 am

piglit wrote:The adoptee is a son/daughter by law only & have another family which could be feeling equally as devestated.

Not sure I agree with that statement Piglit....unless Im misunderstanding what you say.
It could make an adoptee feel as though they are only a son or daughter to their adoptive parents because of the legal paperwork that goes with adoption. Also it says to me that Adoptive parents should realise when they adopt that the child is only going to be theirs because of the legal stuff.....

Many adoptees, myself included, are full time members of their adoptive family who don't feel they are part of the family because of legalities!!! Im with my family because they chose to adopt me....even though they had their own children....and have treated me as an equal to my adoptive siblings. Id hate to think they can only consider me their child because of the law! I AM their child!!!
Born 1965 Adopted 1966
Traced Birth mother and 8 siblings 1987
Reunited with another adopted sibling 2008
Met with 3 siblings on birth Fathers side January 2009

At present, in contact with 9 out of my 12 siblings :-) Not doing too bad!!
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Postby stantheman11 » Wed May 05, 2010 4:10 am

All i can say is that your freinds should not have cut there adopted son off from his birth family in the first place,This lad had the right to keep intouch with his birth family members ,even if he was adopted from a baby.wHAT RIGHT DID YOUR FREINDS HAVE TO PLAY GOD WITH THIS LADS FEELING ? What do people that adopt children expect ? Most adopted children want to find there birth family members ,if people that adopt children ,let children keep intouch with there birth family members ,this sort of thing would not happen.And it serves your freind right ,for cutting this lad off from is birth family,children or not toys.People that adopt children should be gratefull to be given any child,and take it as a blessing.If any person reads this post that does have adopted children ,please do not cut your child of from there birth family members,it causes untold damage to any child through doing this.

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Postby ladyarcher » Wed May 05, 2010 11:32 am

Whoa there does not 'serve them right', in the majority of cases the adopting family does not have any access to the birth family or their details, they cannot keep the birth parents informed. This boy was adopted around thirty years ago.......there were not 'open' adoptions in those days. There might possibly have been the odd one, but by no means was it usual, and still isn't. Birth mothers were told to 'go away and forget about it all', and given no help for their trauma. Most birth mothers were given no option but to have a child adopted, as their own family would not support them, it is only recently that they could get money and housing, and even in the not too distant past, it was still regarded as a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock.........birth mothers and their parents were assured that a child could not find them.

Adopters were not given any support, following an adoption. Once the adoption went through the adopters were totally on their own. They had no further access to any help or advice as to how to help their child once the child did start wanting to trace, or if the child had problems, worries, issues etc. The only 'help' if it can be called that, would be to contact their doctor, or school welfare officer or Social Services, and risk having the child given a 'label' as being difficult, or disturbed. Not a label you want your child given.

The point of that posting - it is as you say, an old one - is that the adoptive parents have supported the son.........they have taken on the chin the fact that he has been a worry to them, not seeming able to make himself a secure adult life........succession of dead end and cigarette money being the only reason for working........short termism in his thinking, which is always a source of great worry to parents, especially as this boy is already 30+ and they are in their 60s........the one thing you want for your children is that they know how to survive in the world when you are no longer there to give them a boost.

The other thing is not that this boy has gone to be with his b.mother, it is that he has not 'done it nicely' There is no reason why he should not write regularly, or e-mail or whatever, to say he is seeing interesting things, having a happy time, making use of perhaps opportunities that are there for employment etc. This would be a perfectly normal thing to do, it would not compromise his 'new life' with his b.parent. It is the way most people behave...... if they go to live or work abroad, or if they are going travelling for a long time....... they send back news. Probably his own feelings of guilt are preventing him writing to his a.parents, so perhaps there is a bit of hope for him.

This post is nearly a year old, with no further additions since then, so we have no way of knowing how things have turned out. Any thoughts of ours about the posting, are therefore, purely academic. They do give us a chance however to explore our own thoughts and feelings about adoption and think about how to work towards perhaps a better way of handling the 'break' in contact between child and b.parent.

There is, as far as I know, no 'blanket' ruling between local authorities to say that everyone should have 'letter box', or every b.parent should get an annual update and photo, or that every b.parent should send a birthday and Christmas card to their child, or should be entitled to get a copy of a school report etc. Perhaps every adoptee should have someone appointed who acts as a form of 'Godparent', not a religious one, but one who is there for the child only, and would act as a person that the child could trust with its feelings about both its sets of parents.....

.....the trouble with any of these sorts of ideas is that they need vast numbers of people who are suitable and willing to do these jobs..... and we know that there are neither the people, the funding, nor the Government interest in anything much to do with adoption. It does not bring in revenue.......and is not greatly of national interest, like the price of petrol.......people generally rarely come in contact with adoptees, and would usually rather not know about things that are awkward, or socially embarassing. To a lot of people we adoptees are, unfortunately, socially embarassing .....and so are our birth parents........none of us fits into a neat box that the lid can be shut on in a 'done and dusted' way.

So, Stan, .....many of us can understand your strong feelings, and see all too clearly where you are coming from..........but I feel that the obvious enormous energy and sense of right that you have, could be better channelled in working towards a better future for adoptees and b.parents and adoptive parents....... We are actually all the victims here, but we are not victims of any one part of the system. We could all benefit from someone with the passion, and time, as you obviously have, to work for us,..... calmly gathering facts, figures, information, statistics, and presenting them in such a way that your, and therefore our, voice is heard.

Don't, therefore, scream wildly at the world in general, and at adoptive parents, and social workers in particular, use your energy constructively, and your spell checker a lot. If you want authorities to notice you and take you seriously, you must present your work well, spelling and punctuation are still important in that world. Also, remember, that there are bad people that are birth parents, not all of them are misunderstood angels.........sometimes it is better for a child not to know them.

Best regards
born 1944 - adopted 1946 - found b.mother 1972 - sadly missed b.father who died young, but who had told his subsequent children that they had two English sisters, and begged them to go on looking for a welcome given to me when I made contact..........finally found full sister, adopted separately, last year, after a forty year search, from finding out about her when I was 25-----
---- full siblings should not be separated should they Stan? Another thing you could help to campaign about------
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Postby stantheman11 » Wed May 05, 2010 11:51 am

Don't delete this because it looks weird. Believe it or not, you can read it.

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid -- aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was important.

so now tell me spelling is important Lol,i shall answer your post in a proper manner when i get back from Manchester,as i need to get a new mother board for my computer

Stan :P
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Postby ladyarcher » Wed May 05, 2010 12:28 pm

love it Stan........but I would still rather a Doctor, for example, or a nuclear scientist, spelt things 'normally'.........i.e., the way we have mostly been trained to understand. Pity the poor folks who are dyslexic, they have enough trouble with received agreement of spelling, how could they possibly begin to cope if we all mixed up our middles differently..

...I think, like language generally, there has to be an agreement on the spelling of words, if only because with certain things it is dangerous for there to be any sort of confusion. You cannot rule that all medical spellings must be the same, if the rule can then be altered for any other sort of spelling. The use of the much reviled apostrophe is also quite important.

I have to confess to being married to an English teacher, so I do notice these things a lot.........however, it has been noticed that children are now having enormous difficulty with learning foreign languages, because most foreign languages have very specific rules with regard to grammar etc. and we have largely dropped grammar from the curriculem. Our children are going to need foreign language expertise even more in the future, and we do them a dis-service when we let grammar slide.

Our 'agreed' spelling was only really formalised when printing was invented, so it has not been around for very long, however our words have long and interesting histories as to why they are spelt certain ways, and it is a pity to lose that history. Any history that is ignored, and then lost, is a pity as it reduces the interest and diversity of any nation. It only takes one, or one and a half generations not to pass on particular information, for that information to be consigned to books only........and then it depends on a person reading - or being able to read - the book. So, for example, not many children aged around primary school age, could now walk down a country lane and know what they could nibble on safely from the hedgerow and what to avoid........but sixty or seventy years ago, most children in rural areas could do this. Now, cars, too many of them, have meant that we run children around, and they do not get to see the hedgerows. Our parents went around in cars too, rural schools close, bigger sisters and brothers do not walk the young ones to school and teach them.............see........all gone........hawthorn was known as bread and cheese, and children would snack on the young leaves on the way to school..........but the enticing shiny berries of Lords and Ladies, they would know to avoid.

What has this to do with spelling, you ask................think about it........
Good luck with the mother board.......whatever that is :roll: no, it's all right, I do know that, despite my age. What I need is a new computer myself, this one is a horse and cart, being at least 15 years old. Still, it's slowness gives me time to see the countryside go past..........

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Postby stantheman11 » Thu May 06, 2010 5:08 am

Hello LH how or you flower ? Just like to say ,I am very happy that you have been in contact with most of your birth family ,I am so sorry for you ,that you never got the chance to meet your b/f before he past away.I am sure were ever he his ,he shall be looking down upon you,and being so prowd of you .
As for my spelling ,,,i cant spell to save my life ,the reason is that ,i never went to school when i was a young lad.i did prefer fishing to schooling .But i must point out that i am a very clever bloke ,and a very understanding person.
The schools spend far to much time on giving children sats tests ,etc,it seems to me that most schools or more interested in these tests ,what a waist of teachers time ,if you ask me.I think your husband would agree with me,that he would prefer to teach ,than to be waisting his time doing these silly tests,the only benefit is one for the Government .Teachers should get back to basics .Children or missing out on a lot of skills in schools if you ask me.I also think there is such a break down in discipline in schools today,i believe that every teacher has the right to discipline a child in there classroom ,without the fear of being arrested off the police,a world gone mad if you ask me.Please don't spend loads of money on getting a new computer,your husband could build you a computer ,thy or so easy to build ,a child could put one together.if you do decide to get a new computer please Pm and i shall give you my email address ,and i can send you a list of parts that you need to purchase ,to build a computer,i shall also give you the web address of the computer store were i get all my parts from .your husband could build you a top of the range computer with monitor for about £250 this includes everything ,which would cost you about 500 + pounds at pc world,i shall email you a step by step guide how to put the parts together ,so easy even you could do it ,you would not believe just how easy it is to build one.

Right lets get back to this topic now
Alot of people that adoptet children ,do not want there children to have any contact with any members of there birth family ,even through the post box that the councils have.Which i think is so selfish and horrible ,to do this to any child,.,which at the time adopted parents can go through the councils to arrange some form of contact with his birth family members,if thy did wish to do so.It was horrible in them day how thy treated woman,and what thy did to unmarried mothers.I really cant see any need to cut any child off from all his birth family.Lets say that a mother abused her child,then i can understand the child having no contact with her,but what about other members of his birth family ,like gran,aunt,uncle ,etc,etc,why the need to cut the child off from these members of the family?not only is it wrong ,it causes so much damage to the child,
Lets get back to the org post
This person knew this lad had problems,thy should of got this lad some help,if someone is being like this lad was .it stands to reason that this lad did have problems in his life which should have been sorted out,the adopted parents did not get this lad any help,its sounds to me like thy never sat him down and spoke to him.Thy should have spoke to this lad about his adoption,and asked him about his wishes,ie,does he want to have any contact with his birth family .It sounds like this lad to me was crying out for some sort of help,this is the reason why i was so harsh in my first post.

I thing it is wrong that any child should be adopted off two gay men,i think it is not right that a child should be brought up like that ,children learn from there parents ,if a young male child does see to men kissing,what his this child going to think?the child his going to think this is right and there is a good chance this child is going to turn out gay.
I Also believe that child should be adopted in a family of there own culture

Has for social services,it is a scandal what some of these social workers or doing to families ,please do a search with google on the topic,secret family courts ,children or being removed from family members for some of the silliest reasons going ,before you repost please do a search on the topic .
I send a letter every week to a couple of Mps about adoption ,and childrens rights,i believe every child that is adopted should have the right to have some face to face contact with some of there birth family members. I urge you to do the same please send a letter to one MP every week and an E-mail also to the same Mp every week.I urge everybody to do this and fight for childrens rights.This is the only way that the law is going to be changed .No siblings should be split up when adopted,it is a scandal and an out cry to do this to any child
If i have to fight on my own for adopted childrens rights ,then so be it,i shall keep sending letters until the day that i leave this Earth in a box ,or until there is a change in the law .


I would just like to add that i find it hard to believe that any mother carrying a child for 9 months ,can give her baby up for adoption without a very good reason

Yes i do understand that it was so much different in the 60s ,and so much harder to have any contact with birth parents,we or only reading one point of view ,and we do not know the full story,but were in the post did it state,WE TRIED TO HELP THIS LAD? This lad has every right to go and live with his birth mum.There must be something wrong if this lad does not want any more contact with his adopted family .Yes ok i may have been alittle harsh in my views ,but it all comes around to how the adopted family feel,and not the adopted child,there must be a good reason why this lad does not want any more contact with his adopted family,it makes me think why.What has gone on in this family for this lad to feel like this?We or only getting one side of the story and all i can do is give my views on the matter ,what i have read.
Why don't this adoptive family write a letter to there adoptive son?instead of thinking of the worst.Lets put things into light ,it has only been four months since he has been in contact,This lad could be in hospital ,this lad might be trying to build a relation ship with his birth mum ,and maybe does not want to hurt his birth mum,by getting intouch with his adopted parents for the time being,For god sake give this lad a bit of space ,after all she his his birth mum,and he has so much catching up to do,he might have lots of blood family members to visit,and who wants to say o i need to write a letter to my adopted family ,give this lad a break for god sake,He might have found out the truth about his adoption,and he could be feeling so angry towards his adopted family ,blaming them for cutting him off from his birth family members. WHO KNOWS
just one more thing
And you wonder why so many children or overweight?,thy spend far to much time sat at there computers ,and games consoles,children do not know how to play anymore,You do not see children playing games ,like hop scotch,or skipping,or lads playing cowboys or Indians any more,it is in my view that children or being made to grow up far to fast,children or missing out on there childhood.WHEN I WAS A CHILD I USED TO LOVE GOING BLACKBERRY PICKING.etc,Lets go back to basics i say and give these children there childhood back,EDUCATION IS GOOD TO A POINT,BUT I FEEL THAT SCHOOLS OF TODAY or just bombarding children with work ,work,and more work,and missing out on the skills of life.It is getting a joke now,teachers or looking in childrens lunch boxes to make sure thy have some fruit and veg,let me just point out that all children do not like lots of fruit and veg,why should children be made to eat so much rabbit food ?What is wrong with a few chips now and again,?the problem is not what children eat,it is lack of exercise,that is the cause of the problem,chips never did me any harm when i was a child ,

What does jamie oliver say meat is good for you,well i am going to shock you now about just what meat etc does to ones body and the cancer that meat causes here is the link please have a read at this FREE Ebook


O one more thing you say a doctor Lol ,i think that doctors or the worst culprits in writeing the English ,can you ever read a proscriptshion ? doctors write in a total different lingo ,if you can read a doctors hand writeing you or very good and i realy commend you ,on your skill .

I keep coming back to this post and adding more words ,Lol,has i did find your posts very intreging .
Have you ever thought about writeing your life story ?which i feel would make a very good read ,has you seem to have a way with words ,and do put feeling and so much thought into your writings ,for people that do not understand ,i am talking about LH posts .I feel you could give so many adoptes hope if you did put down your life story into words on paper.
What would be the title of your book?
From your posts i would bet my life that you or very good at Art,if the answer is no ,it would surprize me .

Last edited by stantheman11 on Thu May 06, 2010 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mnenka » Thu May 06, 2010 8:19 am

Stan, If a young child sees tow men kissing, the young child will think these two men care and love each other. I absolutely see nothing wrong with gay adoption. Two men or women who are in a loving relationship can give a child a secure and loving environment. Studies have shown that children of gay families enter adulthood with less damage, and less bigotry that heterosexual families.
So tell me this, how come my brother is gay and my parents are straight, if you believe a child of gay parents will some how turn the child gay?,,,,, your argument is as old as your ideas,,,,,,,To tell you the truth, I did not bother to read the rest of your post, interesting as it may / or may not be.
Born 1966, Found hours later. Adopted 1972. Placed veto 2005 (for no contact)
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Postby stantheman11 » Thu May 06, 2010 8:59 am

mnenka wrote:Stan, If a young child sees tow men kissing, the young child will think these two men care and love each other. I absolutely see nothing wrong with gay adoption. Two men or women who are in a loving relationship can give a child a secure and loving environment. Studies have shown that children of gay families enter adulthood with less damage, and less bigotry that heterosexual families.
So tell me this, how come my brother is gay and my parents are straight, if you believe a child of gay parents will some how turn the child gay?,,,,, your argument is as old as your ideas,,,,,,,To tell you the truth, I did not bother to read the rest of your post, interesting as it may / or may not be.

Did i state it was wrong for anybody to be gay in my post?My view is that people do not need to force this upon any child by putting them with gay couples,A child needs a mother and a father role ,not watching two guys kissing each other .I realy could not give a dam if you do not read my post ,or not ,you have your views and i have mine, Yes you or write ,children or going to view this has love ,and screw there heads up ,thinking that all boys kiss men .WhicH proves my point
And has for your bro he did not have much choice in the matter,people do not wake up one day ,and think well today i shall become gay,the reason why your brother his gay ,is because when he was a tiny egg in your mums tummy he got more female hormone in the egg than male hormone,and the reason why you or not gay is that your egg got the right amout of male hormones. How many years did your bro think about commiting suicide ? how much stick did your bro get off freinds ,your bro probabley wanted to be so much like you,but he could not no matter ,how much he treid to fight it .There is nothing wrong with your bro,that is the way life is ,
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Postby alabasium » Wed May 19, 2010 10:02 pm

I'm not even going to start to unpick some of the responses on here as I think they're dealing with issues that are rather complex for simple message boards.

In answer to your question Allie, I think adoption is a different enterprise in many ways, these days. I am an adoptee so am qualified to speak from that angle, from my own experience. I am also an adoptive parent so am therefore qualified to speak from that angle. I am also a professional in this field too (but not a social worker).

Adoption today, in many cases involves children who have been removed from their birth parents for good reasons. I know this won't be popular but in my work I have sat on endless child protection panels, fostering panels and so forth. I have seen first hand (not on paperwork etc) where children have been thrown against walls, sexually abused by rings of adults, neglected until they cannot walk or talk, terrified of the adults in their lives so that they cannot access anything that is meaningful, have an understanding of child and adult relationships that is so wonky they will find it a life time's journey to unravel, covered in cigarette burns etc. That might not always be the case, but in TOO many cases it is.

As an adopter, I never went into adoption as a child stealer and resent that people view adoption as this. It offers many children permanency in a safe, stable home. This does not preclude contact with birth parents BUT and this is a massive BUT, all involve HAVE to put the child's needs before their own - simple as (though not always simple in real life!). This means being massively child centered and understanding how identity is shaped and formed and that the child MUST have permission to settle into their new family. Constant psychological dragging between family identities is hugely destructive to developing children's minds. Battering a child psychologically into submission, into seeing one set of parents' views and not the others makes children feel like they are oxen pulling massive carts, over eggshells - this does not make for happy, resilient children.

Life story work and holding in mind very complex family dynamics is a task that only an adoptee can appreciate. The AP and the BP will never understand it like the adopted child (orthe adopted adult, when they are more able to reflect), will. The permission issue is so massive for kids so if AP and BPs really love their children, they must put their feelings to one side and concentrate on the child.

I have met my little one's BM - BF didn't bother to turn up. We had a pretty good meeting all round (and this is a child who was removed into care). We write every year and we send a photo. Now there may genuinely come a time when the adopted child may decide themselves that it doesn't feel right or the opposite, that they may want more contact. The child does of course, have a say too here!

Maybe because I'm adopted myself, I've always tried to open with my little one. For example, if she's curious about her belly button, I will say something like "that was where you were connected to your first Mummy" and so forth. We look at her life story book and I tell her stories. However, I also don't open her mouth and ram it hard down her throat either - it's a delicate balance and one that is very difficult for adopters - perhaps this is the side of adoption that others don't see? I note very few adopters post on here, probably because the strength of feelings that on this site. That's understandable - I cried hugely after meeting my child's BM. I think how inextricably linked she and I are, too. Please don't jump to conclusions that all adopters just swan into the sunset! Many of us are also living with children who are carrying an earlier history of abuse and neglect and that's not easy either.

I would bank money on the best adoptions being where everybody can be as focused on the child as possible. It would hurt me if my child upped and left, but no child is a possession, birth or otherwise.
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